The Chinese takeover with Ankush Arora

Ankush Arora: Two thousand and twenty four, 4,000 new energy vehicles were sold. 

Two thousand and twenty five, 10,000 new energy vehicles were sold, which is a combination of electric, plug-in hybrids, or range extenders. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Range extenders. 

Ankush Arora: This year, I'm estimating close to 25,000 vehicles being sold.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Out of a total market of how much now?

Ankush Arora: Of a total market of say 200,000 - 225,000 passenger cars.

Patrick FitzPatrick: So we hit 10%... we hit 10%.

Ankush Arora: You're hitting... you're hitting 10% this year.

———

Patrick FitzPatrick: Hey everyone.  

Today on Making It, I'm talking to Ankush Arora. 

Ankush is Group CEO of Mansour Automotive. And if you drive a car here, there's a one-in-four or one-in-five chance that his company put you behind the wheel. 

Mansour sells Chevrolet and Opel, and MG, BYD, Peugeot, Isuzu, you name it. It has more than 125 locations across Egypt and operations in eighteen other countries.

There are a couple of reasons why I wanted to have Ankush on the show right now. 

For starters, the biggest story in the car market right now isn't Chevrolet, it’s not Toyota and it’s not Mercedes. It's the Chinese. 

When they first appeared here more than a decade ago, Chinese brands met with a pretty swift backlash. "Law bebalash materkabhashsh" [If it’s for free, don’t ride it] was one social media campaign that a lot of you out there will remember. 

And the speed of the shift and sentiment since then, it’s been nothing short of remarkable. The cars are everywhere. 

And Ankush, he has a pretty fascinating position inside of all that. He sells Chinese brands. He competes with Chinese brands. And his biggest manufacturing bet is one that he’s building with technology from a Chinese state-owned company. 

Ankush isn't family. He is an Indian professional CEO who's been running the business for a decade. So when he talks about cars, he's talking from inside the global industry, not outside of it. 

And that's the conversation.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Ankush, welcome to Making It.

Ankush Arora: Thank you, Patrick. Always a pleasure. 

It's a pleasure reading Enterprise in the morning. More than reading Enterprise, it's always a pleasure talking to you. 

Our chats might be four or five minutes, but they always come up with something interesting.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Thank you, man. We're going to keep you for a little longer today.

Ankush Arora: That's good. That's good. I'm all yours.

Patrick FitzPatrick: We published a piece recently about how our friends and our readers of all ages are parking their Range Rovers and buying Chinese SUVs instead. Cadillac drivers switching to MG, Range Rover drivers switching to the Rox 01.

What does it tell you about where the market's really headed?

Ankush Arora: You know, before I get to talking about where the market is headed, let's take a step back and look at the evolution of Chinese automakers. 

This is not a one-year, two-year, five-year story. It's at least a 20-25 year evolution story, which started way back in the late '80s, '90s.

During these 20-25 years, there has been a very clear long-term strategy supported by the Chinese government, with a very simple objective: reduce dependence on fossil fuel. Because the biggest trade deficit for China today is the importation of oil.

And therefore, when they looked at what they need to do with the automotive industry, [it] is look at a long-term view and start making investments in research and development, which will enable them to really become the leaders globally in new energy vehicles.

And this evolution has really taken pace in the last five to seven years since the onset of COVID. And why do I say since the onset of COVID was because China was closed. And their dependency on themselves to develop self-sustenance grew all the more. And this led to Chinese OEMs really lifting their game when it came to ensuring quality, reliability, and the latest in technology. 

So today what you see is an outcome of all those efforts and initiatives in the products in the market.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Sort of crashing together at the sweet spot.

Ankush Arora: Exactly. 

And customers are today realizing that the life cycle of their ownership for a product is not more than five years. And if the product can really last for five years, very good. And it gives me the right value for money proposition, very good.

Why do I need to be really stuck to a so-called premium brand when I can get this at a much better competitive value proposition, and with more in the product than they have ever witnessed or experienced before?

Patrick FitzPatrick: What's the price delta right now? We're talking in April 2026. What’s the price delta? 

Ankush Arora: So, if you take the price delta between an established brand and a Chinese OEM, it is anything between 25 to 45%.

That's a lot. Right? 

So the question the customer has in his mind is, "Hey, should I pay that premium? Or am I ready to take the risk and the trade-off of driving something which is, you know, I would not say still establishing itself, but which is something new.”

And the answer is, "Why not?"

Patrick FitzPatrick: What's changed in the domestic market that made that possible? 

I mean, five years ago at the A-class of society it was Mercedes versus BMW. You come down one cut, you're talking, you know, is it Toyota or X? It was a very stratified market with families that had been brand loyal in many cases for generations, and we are seeing that change now.

What's driving that? Is it the erosion of consumer spending power after the float? Is it the Chinese technology? How much can you associate with either one of those?

Ankush Arora: It's a combination of both. 

I would say erosion of buying power due to the consumer living in a hyperinflation environment for the last couple of years. And second is the Chinese product, like I said, lifting its game up substantially in terms of offering much more advanced options, features, technology, and a driving experience.

This does not mean that, you know, the established brands are losing their aura or their share of the consumer's mind. No, that's not the case. 

But the consumer is saying, "Hey, till the time I am facing these economic challenges, and I need to get a better return on my investment, let me take the jump."

Patrick FitzPatrick: How many years do you think… It kind of seems to me that you've got a period of time, that transition point where you can really drive brand loyalty, brand affinity, and try to lock that customer in for life.

Ankush Arora: If the pace of the product development from Chinese OEMs continues in the way it is ongoing today, this is not more than two years away.

Obviously, needless to say, this has to be backed by proper support. Service, parts, etc.

Patrick FitzPatrick: We’ll come to that in a minute. But let's zoom out to 35,000 feet. 

What does the market look like right now? We have a Chinese brand at number two, a Chinese brand at number three, one of them is yours. How is the market stratifying today? And what are the dynamics like?

Ankush Arora: So if you look at 2025, the Chinese OEMs grew by 82% while the market grew by 50%. So they outpaced the market. 

Today, imports from China are the largest, and that is primarily happening because of the range of products they offer and the value proposition in terms of a total package.

We actually saw this coming about eight years ago.

Patrick FitzPatrick: That long?

Ankush Arora: Which was part of our long-term strategy, that the Chinese are coming. So we better get prepared for it. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: And that's when we joined hands with MG. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: And MG was a British brand.

Ankush Arora: MG was a British brand, bought out by SAIC, and then moved the whole entire product development, other than design — design is UK. But the whole engineering, product development, manufacturing moved to China. So they bought out the brand rights. 

And I remember way back in 2017 when I was approached by MG, we sat down in the Katameya Heights coffee shop and on a piece of paper we drew out the next 5 to 10 year strategy. In a 30-minute conversation.

Patrick FitzPatrick: In 30 minutes?

Ankush Arora: In 30 minutes. And then they were pretty excited and said, "Why don't you come to China and check out the products?"

Patrick, I went to China and drove their product, two of their products. And tell you what, my wife was driving a C180 Mercedes at that time. I didn't find a difference in the drive quality.

Patrick FitzPatrick: That says something.

Ankush Arora: It got me super excited and said, boy, if this is the evolution of the product over the last couple of years, I don't know what's coming.

And I remember in 2017 when we signed with MG, a lot of people in the company thought, "Hey, what is this bloke from India going and signing up with MG?” We are American. We are Chevrolet. And no disrespect to that. That's still a backbone of our business. 

We tested the product for 100,000 kilometers and guess what? We were surprised at the quality, at the durability, the reliability. With a minimal amount of failures.

Patrick FitzPatrick: And was that a purely electric product at the time or conventional?

Ankush Arora: This was a conventional vehicle. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: And when we went to market, obviously, one of the biggest concerns a consumer has with a new brand is the entire support ecosystem. Are parts going to be available? Is service going to be available? And so on and so forth. 

We did that and guess what? The consumer came forward, was ready to take the risk and say, "Hey, let me try something new.”

Patrick FitzPatrick: Because of pricing.

Ankush Arora: Because of pricing and the product: design and content.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Now, that's on a conventional powered car that everybody knows. Everybody understands.

Chinese electric vehicles are computers on wheels. Over-the-air software updates. Tuning packages controlled through software. What assurance do I have when I bring an electric vehicle back to you guys that I'm going to get real after-sales service and not be left holding a bag?

Ankush Arora: Let me give you an example. The first New Energy Vehicle or electric vehicle we launched was from the MG brand. Six months of intensive training for the people who are going to handle this product.

Patrick FitzPatrick: 'Cause your after-sales staff are all conventional guys, right? Everybody in the market is...

Ankush Arora: Correct. But we went out and signed up with GIZ to set up a mechatronics training specifically to ensure we have fresh talent that we could mold and groom to handle products like this. 

As we speak today, we are working towards setting up another automotive school, which is to only cater to the new energy vehicle technologies. Because without this, it's not going to succeed.

Second part, the transition to new energy vehicles is not like an on/off switch. It's a journey. And the first part of the journey is education and awareness. Every customer has their own myths and beliefs. They have to be told what are the benefits. They have to experience the benefits, and only then will they get converted. And I see that conversion today happening at a pretty good pace. 

Two thousand twenty four, 4,000 new energy vehicles were sold. Two thousand and twenty five, 10,000 new energy vehicles were sold, which is a combination of electric, plug-in hybrids, or range extenders. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Range extenders. 

Ankush Arora: This year, I'm estimating close to 25,000 vehicles being sold.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Out of a total market of how much now?

Ankush Arora: Of a total market of say 200,000, 225,000 passenger cars.

Patrick FitzPatrick: So we hit 10%... we hit 10%.

Ankush Arora: You're hitting... you're hitting 10% this year.

Patrick FitzPatrick: So most of our listeners have walked into a showroom before and they know what to expect, right? It's a classical experience. But you guys are building what you're calling Technology Centers. So I want you to walk our listeners through what's different there. Why a technology center?

Ankush Arora: We didn't want to call it a showroom. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: So when you come in, of course, you experience the product, but we have technology experts that will walk you through the entire construct of the vehicle. 

We have a live demo, a workable live demo of the hybrid system which tells you how the hybrid system operates and what is the benefit for you as a consumer.

The third piece, which is more important, is the whole buying experience. Every delivery, as an example Patrick, takes 30 minutes at a bare minimum. So it's not like you're standing out in the showroom and somebody gives you a key and says, "Thank you for your purchase and goodbye." No. 

We have technology experts in each of the centers who take about 30-40 minutes to walk the customer and his family through the product — with dos, don'ts. So that the customer is at ease in getting the best out of the product.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What's the biggest "do" and what's the biggest "don't"?

Ankush Arora: Do not be fearful of what technology can do to you. Something goes wrong, we are just a call away. 

Number two: drive like you were driving before. 

The plug-in hybrid technology or the EV technology will adapt to your driving habits. And guess what? You know, many of us get caught up with this whole range-anxiety issue. At the end of the day, we don't realize we don't even drive more than 100km a day.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Outside of a few weeks of the year when you go to Sahel, you really don't.

Ankush Arora: And in the next couple of years, as this critical mass starts growing, you're going to see the charging infrastructure follow.

Patrick FitzPatrick: We'll come to charging infrastructure in a bit. But you and others in the industry keep referring to these as "new energy vehicles." Why not just call them electric? What's the difference?

Ankush Arora: Because the plug-in hybrid is not a complete electric. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: So that's the key differentiator there.

Ankush Arora: Exactly.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Where does the market consolidate? You know, is there a winning technology for Egypt in the end or is it just too early to call the bet?

Ankush Arora: I would say in the transition, in order to push adoption up and for the customer to be at peace, the plug-in hybrid is the best solution. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Or even for that matter, range extender. But between the two, the benefits of the plug-in hybrid is that you're getting a chance to drive complete electric. You're getting a chance to drive complete conventional, Or based on the power of the dual motor intelligence platform, you get an opportunity to have a hybrid between the two.

Patrick FitzPatrick: It chooses for you.

Ankush Arora: It chooses for you. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: Based on your driving behavior, based on the driving conditions to give you the best efficiency. So you go away with having any fears of range anxiety, or any fears of losing out on wanting to change your habits overnight, and still experience the new revolution of new energy vehicles.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What did you drive here today?

Ankush Arora: Oh, I'm still driving a conventional Cadillac Escalade. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay. A Mansour vehicle. 

Ankush Arora: A Mansour vehicle of course, I have to be… I am 100% brand loyal. But of course hopefully before the end of the year, I would either change to an electric or plug-in hybrid.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay. If you had to choose one from your fleet, what would you choose today and why?

Ankush Arora: I would choose the BYD. My belief is on the New Energy Vehicle side, they have the best technology. They are global leaders.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Number one electric carmaker.

Ankush Arora: Number one electric car.

Patrick FitzPatrick: And are they the number one overall as well?

Ankush Arora: No. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Who’s the largest carmaker now, globally?

Ankush Arora: Toyota is still the largest carmaker globally. But on the New Energy Vehicle side, BYD is number one globally.

Patrick FitzPatrick: BYD. Okay. 

What's satisfaction like? You've got a few years now with Chinese brands. You can segment this as you like between internal combustion and electric, but what is consumer satisfaction like here in Egypt with the brands? Are you seeing a difference in the two sides of the portfolio?

Ankush Arora: I keep saying in our business there is no rocket science. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Fair.

Ankush Arora: You keep it simple, you take care of the consumer either through the purchasing cycle or through the ownership cycle, and ensure it is frictionless.

Patrick FitzPatrick: That's it. That's the secret.

I make everybody who comes on the show talk about AI for at least a couple minutes. There is one theory that says you guys are further down the chain. The impact of generative AI is not going to be massive. It really is going to take the creation of meaningful world models at scale before this whole self-driving peace happens. 

What is the future of the industry? And what does AI mean to it in Egypt?

Ankush Arora: AI is the future. No two ways about it.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Self-driving cars in Cairo.

Ankush Arora: You know, like they say, if you don't dream, you don't get there. Now whether it is 25 years away or 30 years away...

Patrick FitzPatrick: Is it in our lifetime?

Ankush Arora: It's anybody's guess. But AI is impacting the industry in a massive way. Like you said, we are becoming like a mobile handset.

Example, Patrick. Five years ago or six years ago or ten years ago, the life cycle of a product used to be five years. Today, the life cycle of the product is two, two and a half years.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Really?

Ankush Arora: If you look at the pace at which models are changing — it may not be here in Egypt, but globally, and China is leading that — it's two, two and a half years. Why? Because the whole product development life cycle has been cut down from say four years, four and half years to 18 months, 24 months. 

Today your development of parts is enabled by 3D mapping. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: And less complexity. 

What does that kind of fast turnover mean for sustainability in the industry?

Ankush Arora: It means that if you're not cost competitive, if you're not really up the value chain in terms of technology and using AI as an effective tool, you're going to lose the game.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What does it mean though for the environment? What happens to those vehicles?

Ankush Arora: Your penetration of vehicles on a per thousand basis increases.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay. Secondhand market.

Ankush Arora: Exactly. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: You'll have more consumers having the ability to own a product. And at the same time, recycling becomes a very important proposition too.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Are you guys set up to recycle here in Egypt?

Ankush Arora: Not as yet.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay. Is that on the road map?

Ankush Arora: Eventually, we will.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What does recycling mean? Stripping out the battery...

Ankush Arora: Refurbishing the battery, making it useful for other applications. Or if it can be used even in the vehicle, for extending the life of the vehicle, specifically on the commercial vehicle side. Yes, there is an opportunity.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Alright, last question, and then we’re going to go to break. 

When I tap the brakes on my car, it's not just sending a signal to recharge the battery a little bit. It's recording that I tapped the brakes on my car. If I hit the brake really hard, the vehicle knows I hit the brake really hard. It knows how many kilometers I went, what time of day I went, what I did with it, when my next service is due. And all of that is recorded on a little device. 

Why is my car spying on me? And who has access to that data?

Ankush Arora: Let's relate it to the explosion of social media. It has become now the DNA or part of the DNA of our being, of our life. If it's not regulated properly, it's becoming a menace. 

Same holds good for data and connected technology. If it's not regulated properly, it can be taken as spying. But if it's regulated properly, then it can be taken as monitoring for your benefit.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What is to prevent, not just you, any provider of a vehicle, from selling my data to an insurance company and the insurance company deciding, you know, "Patrick drives a little bit too fast"?

Ankush Arora: Data privacy laws. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Do we have those laws in Egypt yet?

Ankush Arora: In the pipeline. Because without having those data privacy laws, we are going to create a monster.

Patrick FitzPatrick: And we've seen what happens when you don't regulate a sector. Look at social media.

Ankush Arora: Correct. People might not like this, but these data privacy laws are extremely, extremely critical.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Do you guys have a seat at the table for that?

Ankush Arora: Yes. You know, data is going to be defining a lot of our strategies, our actions and the future. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: What are you guys doing with data today that you weren't doing a decade ago?

Ankush Arora: Today I have visibility into the customer's driving data to give him prompts on when his car is going to be due for service, which is helping him to maintain his vehicle better, without him having to really keep monitoring it. 

With that data I can tell him what's his ownership expense as on date. Which can tell him “Hey, (if the car is not being driven by him but being driven by a driver), what's going wrong. Why are the brake pads being changed every 10,000 km while they should be at 20,000 km?” 

But if I was only using this data to just keep throwing out messages to you as owner: "Change your brake pads, change your brake pads," then for me that is spying and it's a win only for me.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What's preventing you from selling this to the insurance company?

Ankush Arora: If it's allowed by the data privacy laws, then yes. If not, no.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Will it be allowed in the current draft?

Ankush Arora: I don't think it should be.

Patrick FitzPatrick: You don’t think it should be. 

Ankush Arora: Without the consumer's consent. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: If the consumer consents, then yes, you'll be allowed to share that data. But if the consumer does not consent, no.

Patrick FitzPatrick: So consumers need to own, have a bit more control over the data.

Ankush Arora: Correct.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay, we're going to take a break and when we come back we're going to talk to Ankush about his USD150 million bet.

Ankush Arora: That's a big bet. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: That’s a big bet, it’s a big bet.

———

Patrick FitzPatrick: Ankush, in November you broke ground on a USD 150 million factory in 6th of October. 50,000 units a year to start and 100,000 in the end. There's no chance we're going to see in the near term 100,000 MGs sold. 

What's the strategy?

Ankush Arora: So when we saw the pandemic in 2020, [and] we saw the economic crisis in 2022 because of the outcome of the geopolitical conflict, etc. It became very clear that global supply chains are getting impacted.

Number two, the future success of this country is industrialization. There are no two ways about it.

Patrick FitzPatrick: We’ve heard a lot of noise to the contrary over the years. There are a lot of people for more than a decade now saying, “We missed the boat. Morocco is ahead of us. There can only be one. We'll never catch up.”

Ankush Arora: I would not say ever that we missed the boat. I would say there is always a cost of getting on the boat. That's the way I see it. 

So yes, Morocco might have gone ahead, Turkey might have gone ahead or India might have gone ahead. But there's never a wrong time or a right time. It all depends on what you can afford and what your appetite is to get onto the boat.

Patrick FitzPatrick: So you think the future is manufacturing?

Ankush Arora: A sustainable future for the country is manufacturing and industrialization. And there is a business case for that. There’s a clear business case for that. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Walk us through it.

Ankush Arora: This business case is human capital, strategic location, and the business environment opportunity that has been created due to the free trade agreements.

Patrick FitzPatrick: We can sell pretty much anywhere, duty-free, quota-free.

Ankush Arora: Exactly. What is critically important to really harness the full potential of these elements is policy and regulation. And more importantly, consistency of policy and regulation.

So the third piece, which was why we went ahead to put this big stake in the ground, was the appetite of the government to really look at supporting this industry with a policy. 

Is it the best? No. Is it the worst? No. It's a good start.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: That gave us the confidence… Till about two years ago, say '23, '24, Patrick, we had zero capability in manufacturing. We are a hardcore distribution, sales, marketing, service company. And that's what we've been for 50 years. Yes, we have a joint venture with General Motors where we have one of the oldest plants in the country. But, this is 100% Mansour investment. Yes, we have technical partnership with SAIC, but the production capacity is not just limited to SAIC. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Hmm, okay.

Ankush Arora: We're going to do other brands in there as well.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: Which we see are fit for the market, or products that are fit for the market. And that's the game plan.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Are those brands that are in your portfolio, right now? 

Ankush Arora: Yes.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What's the first product that’s going to roll off the production line?

Ankush Arora: First product is going to be an MG. And it's going to be an affordable sedan. Which is, you know, 30-35% of the market. Which will hopefully, fingers crossed, roll out before the end of this year.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Nice.

Ankush Arora: It's been a phenomenal journey from having zero capacity, zero capability to today talking confidently on how we can build a car by Egyptians, with Egyptians, for Egyptians, is something terrific that we are creating.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Is it an electric vehicle or?

Ankush Arora: This will be a conventional vehicle, but following that will be an electric vehicle too, on the same lines. 

The plant is set up to do six to seven product lines. The plant has been set up to have flexible manufacturing. And the plant has been set up to do multiple body styles of vehicles or engine types of vehicles, whether conventional or new energy.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What was the most difficult thing getting to the point where you have a fully-assembled-in-Egypt product coming off that line done by Egyptians for Egyptians?

Ankush Arora: The most difficult thing, to be honest, was to go and find the know-how on how to get it done at the right cost.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay, walk us through that.

Ankush Arora: Okay. So first was to build the right team and the right capable people. But nobody had the experience of building a plant from scratch. That homework and that learning we did on our own. And guess what? No surprises here. China was the destination. 

We were able to get turnkey solutions for everything at a very, very competitive cost. Without compromising quality, without compromising productivity, etc., etc.

Today we are at a stage that we can consult for new entrants wanting to set up a plant here in Egypt or in the region.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Your new sideline: consulting on manufacturing.

Ankush Arora: Correct, that's a good part, right. 

Two, we are very confident that we will have one of the most efficient plants, if not in the country for sure, but in the region.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What's the region defined as?

Ankush Arora: Africa.

Patrick FitzPatrick: How much of production is to serve domestic demand? And how much of it is export?

Ankush Arora: So today, the business case has been built on 100% domestic consumption. While exports are on the cards, but that is going to be two years after starting production. 

And there are two elements to that, Patrick. One of course is, you know, sorting out the kinks, getting the quality right, getting the competitors right, and getting the localization right. 

Second is obviously getting the brand rights for export from the OEM. Because at the end of the day, I don't own the brand, I don't own the product IP. 

So as a foundation to getting there in two years, three years time, what we're doing parallelly is setting up the distribution network in some of the potential markets with our principal OEMs like SAIC. 

But this is going to take time, alright. This is not a one-day journey or a one-year, two-year journey…

Patrick FitzPatrick: So it sounds like you plan to be here for a while.

Ankush Arora: I don't intend to go anywhere else. 

I'm at an age where I'm enjoying what I'm doing, right? So I have no reason to leave this beautiful country. Unless I'm thrown out, that's a different story.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Inshallah coming for none of us. 

You speaking of getting thrown out of the country... you said some things could be better in the regulations, in the framework that the government has put out. 

Walk us through what changes need to happen from a regulatory point of view, from a policy point of view, to really encourage others to take the same leap that you guys have taken.

Ankush Arora: Two important elements. One is consistency of regulation. Because.. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: That the law today is the law tomorrow, next week, next month, next year.

Ankush Arora: Correct. 

Second thing, it's a very simple equation actually. If I'm an investor, what would I look for? I would look for where do I get the best return on my investment. Where there is ease to do business. And obviously, needless to say, there is a market. 

If the government looks at all these three elements in a very pragmatic way… it's a perfect equation. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: You're summoned to the New Capital tomorrow. The Prime Minister sits you down and says, "Ankush, my friend, I grant you one wish.” What one policy change do you want him to bring into effect that unlocks the industry?

Ankush Arora: Let the market continue to grow. Put in policies and initiatives that are going to help get more consumers into new cars, which will further help us get the scale that is required to become cost competitive to export.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What are those things? What gets more people into cars? 

Ankush Arora: Example, why can't we have a policy to replace or scrap 20-year-old vehicles? 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Like the taxi program, 10-15 years ago. 

Ankush Arora: Exactly, we ran some great stuff a couple of years ago. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Yeah.

Ankush Arora: Why can't there be a policy to give additional benefits if you buy locally produced?

Patrick FitzPatrick: So you want some demand-side stimulus through the regulatory framework. 

Ankush Arora: Exactly. And that demand can also, in a way, protect the local industry. That's it. It's a function of demand. 

You know, I've said this and I've said this to His Excellency the Prime Minister and to others: I am not a big fan of incentives. Incentives need to be capital-based so you're getting your return on investment. Whether it is in tax exemption or you know, land value assessment, etc. These incentives need to be for a period of time in order to get the industry or the project on its feet. 

Eventually, it is the demand that is going to drive the efficiency.

Patrick FitzPatrick: That's what makes the market sustainable in the long term.

Ankush Arora: Let's take an example. I’m a college student, I just passed out of college, right? I got a new job. I'm getting paid EGP 20,000 - EGP 30,000. Can I afford a car? How? 

But if I'm able to get a financing program for seven-eight years on a subsidized interest rate, if I adopt a New Energy Vehicle and I get to pay USD 100 a month or EGP 5,000 a month, I'll jump right into it.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Consumer finance makes the world go round. 

Ankush Arora: Because that helps to create demand, and finance is the biggest catalyst. Credit is one of the biggest catalysts for growth when it's regulated and controlled properly.

Patrick FitzPatrick: A whole bunch of people in a whole bunch of industries, their heads just exploded and they said, "Why you guys in automotive? Why not me? I'm important too." 

Why you in automotive, Ankush?

Ankush Arora: You know, when you look at it, automotive is one of the biggest contributors to the GDP, right? It creates jobs. It's high-capital. And three, the technology transfer is very easy if it is supported by an OEM. Four, because of the free trade agreements that we have, if we make best use of that, you're looking at large hard currency inflows. 

This is actually for the government to decide, every sector cannot be a priority sector. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: They've really resisted that for a very long time.

Ankush Arora: Well, it's time to… because you can't put your money to back everybody.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Morocco picked some winners. I think — not pandering to you in view of your passport — but I think India is the supreme example of having chosen priority sectors. 

Ankush Arora: Correct. Fourteen sectors.

Patrick Fitzpatrick “And if you're not on that list, we welcome you. But if you're on that list, we're going to be globally competitive, we're going to attract the best.” And you have a market that is literally bringing in tens of billions of dollars in FDI every year and shipping out tens of billions of exports on the other side. 

So we have to pick some winners.

Ankush Arora: Correct.

Patrick FitzPatrick: If you were advising a 25-year-old kid… comes to you and says, "Ankush Should I make this industry my thing? You know, I'm a car nerd. I like technology. Are there jobs for me in this industry going forward?" What would you tell her?

Ankush Arora: It's a phenomenal opportunity. But don't keep your mind limited to just being a mechanical engineer or sales and marketing guy. Look at what you can do on the technology front, whether it is AI, whether it is big data management, whether it is the whole digital piece. 

That's where the biggest opportunity and need of talent is going to be.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Right, when we come back we're going to talk to Ankush about his crisis playbook, how Mansour survived a 70% devaluation, and what he learned when GM went bankrupt in 2009.

Ankush Arora: I was part of GM then!

Patrick FitzPatrick: You were part of GM then. Exactly. Exactly — that’s why.  

———

Patrick FitzPatrick: I want to ask you Ankush about how Mansour Group actually works. Okay. The mechanics of the group and how you set strategy. And it's a large group, active in a whole bunch of sectors. So I'm going to focus narrowly speaking on new energy vehicles. 

You guys have in the portfolio — in the broader family portfolio — Infinity, which is building out one of the country's largest EV charging networks. They're good friends of ours. And funnily enough, you're selling new energy vehicles and they're building stations. Do you guys talk to each other? Is Mimo on your call list? How do you plan strategy and growth within the group?

Ankush Arora: We are a family-owned business. The good part is what I say in my terminology, "glocal." 

Patrick FitzPatrick: I like that. 

Ankush Arora: We have global aspirations, but locally embedded in terms of value, culture, and building expertise. 

You know, a lot of people have asked me this question: coming from working in the corporate world…

Patrick FitzPatrick: Your whole life, you were corporate.

Ankush Arora: All my life, right. How did I survive so long in a family-owned business? And I tell you, I wish I'd done this before. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Really?

Ankush Arora: Because the Mansour family, and especially our Chairman, believes he doesn't need managers, he needs entrepreneurs. Who think that the capital is theirs and are responsible for it.

And number two, he believes in complete professionalism. So there is no day-to-day monitoring or things like that. You build a plan, you build a strategy…

Patrick FitzPatrick: So management is one thing and governance is something else.

Ankush Arora: Exactly. Infinity is a great partner because they are joined with us at the hip when it comes to our new energy vehicle strategy. So Mimo and me have a conversation multiple times in a month on what's happening, what we're doing. And it gives us great strength because when we're talking to partners like BYD as an example, or MG, or others, having Infinity on our side is a huge plus. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: The half-life of the Egyptian pound is about six years. We've just passed through a period where in the two years to March 2024, we lost 70% of our value against the greenback. Car sales [are] down by more than half. 

I was here, you were here when a piece of paper that said you had the right to take delivery of a car in the future became a fungible good. That was a store of wealth and you could sell that receipt, that says you were in line to buy a car, to somebody else. 

How did you lead Mansour through that period?

Ankush Arora: You know I jokingly say we've seen two and a half movies.

Patrick FitzPatrick: I hope this one ends well for us, man.

Ankush Arora: Yeah. This one is just beginning. That's why the half. Right. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: So we’re at the intermission right now. 

Ankush Arora: But we saw the movie in '16, '17. Then we saw the movie in '22, '24. 

I have a very simple philosophy, Patrick. Don't stress yourself on things you don't control. Stay focused on things that you control.

So when you have the currency crisis, when you have, you know, the supply chain crisis, or you see oil price going up. Hey, I don't control that. What I control is cost. What I control is what I can do in terms of the marketplace.

Example, in 2022 when we saw the geopolitical conflict come into play, and we saw the hard currency crisis coming into play…. The guys said, "No, this is just two, three months." I said, this is not two, three months

This is a long haul. If not for this year, it'll be next year. “So guys, this is the business plan.” 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Rip it up. 

Ankush Arora: “Rip it up. We build from zero-base.” I need to see what are the costs that we can eliminate without touching a job.

Patrick FitzPatrick: No job losses.

Ankush Arora: No job losses. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay.

Ankush Arora: This is the value of the family. This is the value of the group. These crises will come and go. People are our biggest assets. If somebody leaves, I'm not going to replace [them], but I'm not going to fire anybody.

Two, let's control every element of our cost structure.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Where can you cut corners? 

Ankush Arora: Three, beyond the traditional business, let us look at every revenue opportunity. Be it finance, be it insurance, be it XYZ. How do we bring this into our fold?

Patrick FitzPatrick: What opportunities did you find?

Ankush Arora: Lots. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay. What are the top three?

Ankush Arora: I say necessity is the mother of invention.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Yea.

Ankush Arora: We started doing accessorization of trucks, which we never did before. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: No way?

Ankush Arora: We started doing special application on trucks, which we never did before. Right. We started controlling and saying insurance needs to be in-house. 

You looked at how do you really manage your inventory and cash and put it where you're going to get the best return. If the return wasn't there, thank you. Keep it on the side. I don't want to do this business.

Because one thing you fundamentally changed at that time — which is a big paradigm change for the group: I'm not looking at market share. And they said, "Why? We are market leaders. We need to look..." I said, "No. I will look at market share when I have the supply and control."

When I don't have supply and control, why am I going to go and chase market share? It's a waste of time, energy, and we're going to lose money. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: And then on the other side? 

Ankush Arora: You had great results. Now, two years after that, when things normalized: Sorry guys, throw all of that out of the window. I'm going after market share because supply is back to normal.

Patrick FitzPatrick: You can compete again.

Ankush Arora: Right. So your strategy needs to change. Don't be fixated on your business plan because you wrote it down, but you did not comprehend into the business plan all the shit and nonsense that came your way. Don't be scared to throw it away and rewrite it. And don't be scared to say, "I'm going to live by the day, too." At times you need to do that.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Take it day by day.

Ankush Arora: Take it day by day.

Patrick FitzPatrick: One day at a time. 

Ankush Arora: And that helped us survive these two crises. And during this crisis, gave us the confidence to put a stake in the ground and say we're going to go and invest USD 150 million in a new plant. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: That's a decision you made during this time period.

Ankush Arora: Correct.

Patrick FitzPatrick: So you were headed to China to kick the tires on how do we make this work? How do we get that manufacturing expertise during the crisis?

Ankush Arora: Absolutely. I tell you, everything that you're seeing roll out in the last one year was all work done during the crisis. We never kept silent.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Nice. 

Now, you used to work at General Motors. It rather famously went bankrupt in 2008-2009. Needed a huge bailout from US taxpayers. The Indian operation that you were working for not only wasn't impacted, you rolled out a new vehicle in the process. 

What did you learn from that experience and how did you pull it off?

Ankush Arora: You know, Patrick, this is a classic example of when you say you need to understand culture even before you do business. 

The meaning of the word bankruptcy in the US, which is Chapter 11…

Patrick FitzPatrick: It’s protection. It's reorganization. It's not a failure. 

Ankush Arora: Correct. But if you go to the developing world, whether it is Egypt or India, it's like putting a lock on your business door. That's the meaning of the word bankruptcy.

And when we knew this was going to happen, we sat down with the team and I said, "Guys, what is the customer going to think and do when he hears GM is going bankrupt?” From an Indian consumer standpoint, he's going to think our doors are locked. What's going to happen to my vehicle?

Patrick FitzPatrick: No spare parts. No service. 

Ankush Arora: Etc, etc. All we need to do is two things. 

One, give them a credible proof that we are still in business. And number two, communicate, communicate, communicate that we are here for you.

I remember I had 100 people in my office who were sales and marketing and service professionals. I said, "Not a single guy is going to be in the office. I'm allocating the whole country amongst you guys. Get on a train, flight, bus, whatever it takes. These are your locations where you're going to be parked for the next 15 days. And your job is to be at the dealerships, at the workshops, talking to customers and telling them we are standing behind you.”

Number two, we had to launch a product in August. "Pull it forward. I'm going to launch it in June." 

And then when we launched the new product, you had new customers coming in… We knew they would not believe when a dealer tells them everything is normal. "I'm from General Motors. I'm telling you, we are standing by. Everything is normal." 

Overnight we changed the whole perception, the whole narrative.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Communicate, communicate, communicate.

I want you to walk me through, Ankush, how a big decision gets made at Mansour Automotive. Who's in the room? How do you prepare for it? What do those inflection points look like and how do you structure them?

Ankush Arora: In the room is my management team. Right. We have something called the MANCOM, which is the Management Committee. 

Decisions are made on return on capital. Decisions are made on what does it do to our medium to long-term strategy. And three, is it protecting us for the future? 

The one thing good — and this I believe in personally — not taking a decision is the worst decision.

Patrick FitzPatrick: So it’s better to be wrong than to have made no decision at all. 

Ankush Arora: Correct.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Why so?

Ankush Arora: Because then you learn. And then you change. Then you improve.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What's your job as CEO?

Ankush Arora: My job is to have fun. 

So my job is to, one, protect and grow shareholder value. Two, develop talent. And three, drive the mid to long-term strategy. 

Where I spend a lot of my time is in ensuring that the organization and the structure of the organization is in great shape, which is on the people side. Get the right talent, put the right structure, support them initially and then let them run the business. 

I am not and don't like to be a micromanager. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: Okay. 

Ankush Arora: Yes, I'm a micromanager in the initial stage. But once things are running off the ground, then the head of the business, the head of the P&L needs to run the business.

Patrick FitzPatrick: So if you're really focused on people and strategy, that suggests you've got somebody somewhere who's a shock absorber. 

Ankush Arora: Yes.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Who deals with problems for you?

Ankush Arora: My operating heads.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What does it take for a problem to hit Ankush's desk?

Ankush Arora: When they don't have a solution. Or they need guidance on multiple options that are in front of them. I will never give a solution for a running business. You want guidance, come to me with options. You have to think of options. 

If you've not, then we'll sit together and think of options. Because only that way people will start becoming confident and start taking decisions. Otherwise, you'll be running a mom-and-pop shop.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Mansour Group has been in the automotive business for 50 years. How does a 50-year-old business prepare for the next 50? How do you build a hundred-year business?

Ankush Arora: With having the right value system and having the right vision and foresightedness on where sustainability is of prime importance. And last but not the least, having the right people. 

Today, I don't have a retirement age. But I discuss succession and progression plans with the chairman for every critical position in the company. Because it's not about one person, it's about the institution. The day the company becomes a one-person institution, it's a power game.

Patrick FitzPatrick: And you failed.

Ankush Arora: And you failed.

Patrick FitzPatrick: What is something you believed early in your career that you've changed your course on, changed your mind on?

Ankush Arora: I used to think hard work and slogging 24 hours a day is the only way to success. I think in today's day and age, success can be defined in multiple ways. 

Patrick FitzPatrick: How do you define it?

Ankush Arora: It can be in smarter working. It can be in better time management. It can be in having a healthy work-life balance. It can be in pursuing opportunities without having the fear of failure.

Patrick FitzPatrick: Nice. 

Ankush, thank you very much for joining us today on Making It, my friend. It's been great seeing you.

Ankush Arora: Likewise, Patrick. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you very much.