{"id":566056,"date":"2021-05-25T14:02:01","date_gmt":"2021-05-25T14:02:01","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/2021\/05\/25\/efg-hermes-awad-on-forays-into-merchant-banking-foreign-expansion-of-nbfs-arm-and-whats-next-for-the-debt-market-part-2-of-2\/"},"modified":"2021-05-25T14:02:01","modified_gmt":"2021-05-25T14:02:01","slug":"efg-hermes-awad-on-forays-into-merchant-banking-foreign-expansion-of-nbfs-arm-and-whats-next-for-the-debt-market-part-2-of-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/2021\/05\/25\/efg-hermes-awad-on-forays-into-merchant-banking-foreign-expansion-of-nbfs-arm-and-whats-next-for-the-debt-market-part-2-of-2\/","title":{"rendered":"EFG Hermes\u2019 Awad on forays into merchant banking, foreign expansion of NBFS arm, and what\u2019s next for the debt market. \u2014 part 2 of 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a class=\"content-anchor\" id=\"tldr-story-01\"><\/a> <strong>Part two of our exclusive with EFG Hermes Group CEO Karim Awad<\/strong> continues this afternoon with a look at what\u2019s next for EFG \u2014 and for the market in Egypt.<strong> If you missed Part 1<\/strong> \u2014 where Awad dives deep into the Arab Investment Bank (AIB) acquisition and teaming up with the Sovereign Fund of Egypt \u2014 you can check it out <a href=\"https:\/\/enterprise.press\/#tldr-story-01\">here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Among the key takeaways <\/strong>of part two:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>EFG Hermes is still in investment mode<\/strong> \u2014 merchant banking and direct investment are on the menu.<\/li>\n<li><strong>The NBFS arm could grow outside Egypt<\/strong>, starting with valU in Saudi Arabia.<\/li>\n<li><strong>The biggest obstacle to the return of international institutional investors?<\/strong> The absence of new, large-cap names.<\/li>\n<li><strong>The debt market has been a shining star <\/strong>for companies looking to mobilize the capital they need to grow.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong>E: EFG went down this road before with Bank Audi. What\u2019s different this time?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>A: <\/strong>Primarily that there are huge chances for synergies between EFG Hermes today and AIB. It\u2019s not a financial investment.<\/p>\n<p><strong>E: Will merchant banking still be on the menu for you going forward?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>A: <\/strong>Absolutely. What we\u2019re doing now is completing a pivot that started with our generating cash by exiting the Lebanese commercial bank at the right time. Some of that cash we returned to shareholders. Some of it we used to create the NBFI platform. Part of it is allowing us now to enter into our partnership with the SFE on the bank. And some of that cash has and will allow us to pursue merchant banking, private equity and other direct investments in the future. Look at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.efgev.com\/\">EFG Hermes EV Fintech<\/a> \u2014 it\u2019s a partnership that acknowledges our industry is going to be shaken up by tech, and we want to be at the forefront of that conversation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>E: EFG Hermes is a global name outside Egypt \u2014 you\u2019re the top-ranked broker in Kenya, you\u2019re growing in KSA, you\u2019re in Pakistan and Vietnam. But your NBFS platform is Egypt-only. Does the model scale outside of Egypt? <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>A: <\/strong>We wanted to make sure we had the business model right, and we\u2019re now convinced we do. That\u2019s why we\u2019re seriously looking at which of our NBFI brands could work in which of our other markets \u2014 for example, we think valU could do really well in Saudi Arabia. ValU has been a great story for us in Egypt, and we think that as a fintech solution, it\u2019s definitely exportable to Saudi Arabia, and we have three other markets that we could consider.<\/p>\n<p>But you need to remember here that the market in Egypt is just huge, from NBFI to commercial banking, and it\u2019s going to keep us very busy for the foreseeable future. On the other hand, the growth of the investment banking market has naturally been slower, and that\u2019s why we started building our franchise outside with that end of the business. We\u2019ve closed IPOs in Saudi Arabia, we\u2019re working on transactions in the UAE, we\u2019ve done cross-border M&A and we have a great brokerage market share.<\/p>\n<p><strong>E: What is next for EFG as an investment bank?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>A: <\/strong>I think we\u2019ve done a really good job building the franchise outside of Egypt, and I\u2019m extremely happy with progress in important markets like Saudi Arabia and the UAE. As you said, we\u2019re number one by market share in Kenya, which we entered just 2-3 years ago. We want to see more market share in KSA, and we want to grow our presence in frontier emerging markets, especially when it comes to the advisory side of the business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>E: Let\u2019s turn back to the market here at home. When will foreign investors come back to Egypt? They\u2019re the natural constituency to appreciate what you announced last week with AIB.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think the issue with the stock market today is that the amount of investable paper is limited. The simple fact is that larger institutional investors demand large cap stocks in which to invest, and they want to see more diversity on the EGX in terms of names that represent the depth of the Egyptian economy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>E: So what\u2019s going to bring them back? <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>A: <\/strong>A large IPO of a state-owned company. Or a large transaction like a [fintech player] Fawry or [education outfit] CIRA that has size and that puts on offer a sector to the economy without which they didn\u2019t have access before. But more than anything else, they need more large caps. The simple fact is that a USD 100 mn IPO is going to attract a few foreign investors, but not all of the classes of foreign investors that you need.<\/p>\n<p>Go back to when the market was doing USD 200-300 mn a day you had a lot of large caps with freefloats big enough that institutions could get in and get out on a daily basis. Today you have CIB, you have Fawry, you have Eastern and maybe Elsewedy. We have what, three constituents in the MSCI [Emerging Markets Index]? Back in 2010, the comparable figure was in the range of 10-11. We need to see good, fundamentally sound large caps that have significant growth potential.<\/p>\n<p><strong>E: What do your equity and IPO pipelines look like? <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>A:<\/strong> Healthy [smiles]. Look, we have good pipelines on both M&A and equity, but execution will always remain a function of markets.<\/p>\n<p><strong>But there is a disconnect right now: We think the economy is doing extremely well and the stock market does not reflect that at all.<\/strong> There is a huge disconnect that needs to be fixed sooner rather than later. It\u2019s the opposite of the concern that some pundits have in looking at wesstern markets.<\/p>\n<p><strong>E: I think we probably want to close with a look at debt markets. If things have been slow on the equity front and picking up on M&A, they\u2019ve been comparatively torrid on debt. <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>A: <\/strong>Developments in the debt market have frankly been extraordinary. Where the equity market has lagged, the debt market has been doing extremely well, in no small part thanks to the fact that the various regulators have really made it a priority to make debt more tradeable. We\u2019ve seen a nice boom in issuances, from securitization and sukuk to corporate bonds. It\u2019s a very healthy development, because debt is the backbone of any capital market globally.<\/p>\n<p><strong>E: But commercial paper and corporate bonds have been \u2026 slow. And securitization has really seemed to be the province of NBFS players and the real estate industry.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>A: <\/strong>We want to see more commercial paper come to market, and we\u2019ve put our money where our mouth is in that respect \u2014 we were among the first to issue commercial paper recently for our brokerage business. We see it super-interesting avenue for financing.<\/p>\n<p>Look, the market \u2014 for commercial paper, for bonds, for securitization \u2014 it\u2019s snowballing. It takes time, but we\u2019re at the start of a really strong period of growth. And remember: The banks and investment banks usually go to the most obvious clients to start, right? That\u2019s why you\u2019re seeing a lot of real estate and a lot of NBFI players.<\/p>\n<p>I think the changes now being discussed to allow landlords and schools and clubs and the like to securitize future cashflows is a really good development that will bring another class of clients to the market that weren\u2019t there before. I\u2019m optimistic.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Part two of our exclusive with EFG Hermes Group CEO Karim Awad continues this afternoon with a look at what\u2019s next for EFG \u2014 and for the market in Egypt. If you missed Part 1 \u2014 where Awad dives deep into the Arab Investment Bank (AIB) acquisition and teaming up with the Sovereign Fund of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":566057,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"single-feature.php","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"newspack_ads_suppress_ads":false,"newspack_popups_has_disabled_popups":false,"newspack_sponsor_sponsorship_scope":"","newspack_sponsor_native_byline_display":"inherit","newspack_sponsor_native_category_display":"inherit","newspack_sponsor_underwriter_style":"inherit","newspack_sponsor_underwriter_placement":"inherit","ep_exclude_from_search":false,"_primary_brand":0,"newspack_featured_image_position":"","newspack_post_subtitle":"","newspack_article_summary_title":"Overview:","newspack_article_summary":"","newspack_hide_updated_date":false,"newspack_show_updated_date":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[7279],"tags":[3148,204,84,633,7087,2460,81,370,2073],"brand":[],"newspack_spnsrs_tax":[],"class_list":["post-566056","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spotlight","tag-arab-investment-bank","tag-banking","tag-efg-hermes","tag-enterprisepm","tag-finance","tag-karim-awad","tag-privatization-watch","tag-sovereign-fund-of-egypt","tag-spotlight","wpautop","entry"],"acf":{"mongo_id":"a23aab97-8276-428b-95dc-50b482deca04","is_powered_by":true,"story_type":"1","photo_url":"https:\/\/ent.news\/2021\/5\/443.jpg","photo_position":"above","related_issue":[566052],"teaser":"","voice_url":""},"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v27.1 (Yoast SEO v27.1.1) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>EFG Hermes\u2019 Awad on forays into merchant banking, foreign expansion of NBFS arm, and what\u2019s next for the debt market. \u2014 part 2 of 2 - EnterpriseAM Egypt<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/2021\/05\/25\/efg-hermes-awad-on-forays-into-merchant-banking-foreign-expansion-of-nbfs-arm-and-whats-next-for-the-debt-market-part-2-of-2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"EFG Hermes\u2019 Awad on forays into merchant banking, foreign expansion of NBFS arm, and what\u2019s next for the debt market. \u2014 part 2 of 2\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Part two of our exclusive with EFG Hermes Group CEO Karim Awad continues this afternoon with a look at what\u2019s next for EFG \u2014 and for the market in Egypt. 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Was the SFE serious about public-private partnership? Did EFG Hermes\u2019 management have a\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Spotlight&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Spotlight","link":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/category\/explainers\/spotlight\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/ent.news\/2021\/5\/214.jpg?fit=%2C&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":555594,"url":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/2021\/11\/21\/efg-sfe-finalize-acquisition-of-arab-investment-bank\/","url_meta":{"origin":566056,"position":1},"title":"EFG, SFE finalize acquisition of Arab Investment Bank","author":"enterpriseam admin","date":"21 November 2021","format":false,"excerpt":"EFG Hermes is now officially a universal bank: Our friends at EFG Hermes finalized on Thursday their acquisition of a 51% stake in the Arab Investment Bank (aiBank), transforming the leading financial services corporation in frontier emerging markets into a universal bank in Egypt, EFG said in a statement (pdf).\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;M&amp;A WATCH&quot;","block_context":{"text":"M&amp;A WATCH","link":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/category\/ma-watch\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/ent.news\/2021\/11\/518.jpg?fit=%2C&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":565993,"url":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/2021\/05\/20\/to-universal-bankhood-and-beyond\/","url_meta":{"origin":566056,"position":2},"title":"To universal bankhood, and beyond","author":"enterpriseam admin","date":"20 May 2021","format":false,"excerpt":"EFG and the SFE have inked agreements to buy a supermajority stake in AIB in a transaction worth some EGP 3.8 bn. The Sovereign Fund of Egypt (SFE) and EFG Hermes will acquire 76% of the Arab Investment Bank (AIB), the two parties announced in a joint press release (pdf)\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;SPEED ROUND: M&amp;A WATCH&quot;","block_context":{"text":"SPEED ROUND: M&amp;A WATCH","link":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/category\/speed-round-ma-watch\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/ent.news\/2021\/5\/408.jpeg?fit=%2C&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":572460,"url":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/2020\/06\/25\/efg-egypts-sovereign-fund-look-to-take-76-stake-in-arab-investment-bank\/","url_meta":{"origin":566056,"position":3},"title":"EFG, Egypt\u2019s sovereign fund look to take 76% stake in Arab Investment Bank","author":"enterpriseam admin","date":"25 June 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"M&A WATCH- EFG, sovereign fund look to take 76% stake in Arab Investment Bank: EFG Hermes and the Sovereign Fund of Egypt (SFE) have obtained regulatory approval from the Central Bank of Egypt to conduct due diligence ahead of a potential acquisition of state-affiliated Arab Investment Bank (AIB), the two\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Speed Round&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Speed Round","link":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/category\/speed-round\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/ent.news\/internal\/536550.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":591971,"url":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/2019\/12\/23\/efg-gb-nbfs-arms-team-up-to-acquire-majority-stake-in-tokio-marine-egypt-family-takaful\/","url_meta":{"origin":566056,"position":4},"title":"EFG, GB NBFS arms team up to acquire majority stake in Tokio Marine Egypt Family Takaful","author":"enterpriseam admin","date":"23 December 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"M&A WATCH- EFG Hermes, GB Auto jointly acquire majority stake in Tokio Marine Egypt: A consortium of EFG Hermes and GB Auto\u2019s non-banking financial services arms has acquired 75% of Japan\u2019s Tokio Marine Holdings life insurance subsidiary Tokio Marine Egypt Family Takaful in an EGP 84.75 mn transaction, according to\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Speed Round&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Speed Round","link":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/category\/speed-round\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/ent.news\/2019\/7\/efg-hermes-1600px.jpg?fit=%2C&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":574076,"url":"https:\/\/enterpriseam.com\/egypt\/2020\/08\/30\/efg-hermes-gb-capital-close-acquisition-of-majority-stake-in-tokio-marines-egypt-arm\/","url_meta":{"origin":566056,"position":5},"title":"EFG Hermes, GB Capital close acquisition of majority stake in Tokio Marine\u2019s Egypt arm","author":"enterpriseam admin","date":"30 August 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"M&A WATCH- EFG Hermes and GB Capital have closed their acquisition of 75% of Tokio Marine Egypt Family Takaful, the two companies said in a press release (pdf). 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